Just heard on the news. Old man called 911 and said someone was trying to steal his outboard. Next they heard was the old man had the 20-something guy held at bay. When the cops got there the thief was dead. Old man went to hospital as a precaution. No one knows what happened yet with no obvious signs of trauma.

I don't care if he strangled the bastard, there's only going to be one witness.

hahhahahahahha

somebody stole my next door neighbors outboard and they pretty much had to come up my driveway with the light on to do it. He called the sheriff but they never found it.

Well if he was holding the (thief at bay) I'm guessing a firearm was the cause of death. RIP Loser

"no obvious signs of trama" was the report

"no obvious signs of trama"


Your right I missed that part, musta shot him square in the ass.

One down, many more scumbags to go. Lock and load boys.


Fishy

If it was a Force outboard he was trying to steal; the thief truly died in vain. Best wishes for the "old" man's speedy recovery, he likely saved society from a heap o' problems and expenses down the road. Justice ain't always just...a child killer walks out of a court room one week, and an outboard thief gets tagged in the street a week later.

One for the good guys

Never pick a fight with an old man. He'll just kill you.

Just watch......the POS's family will be living in the old mans house before this is over. Here come the wrongful death and likely manslaughter charges for the old man. I will be amazed if he is not charged and sued.

The Snohomish County Medical Examiner ruled the death a homicide yesterday with the cause of death being asphxiation (choking). Here is one way this could have gone down that without independent corrobaration is just as likely as the 67 year old's version.

He kills the guy (there evidently is some relationship between the two, I read that the "thief" is a friend of the homeowner's nephew)
Phones 911 and says somebody is trying to steal his outboard motor
Removes the outboard motor from his boat
"Detains" the suspect until the police arrive

Now, what makes the above scenario any less likely than what has been reported? I don't know what happened, none of us do. The only one with knowledge is the 67 year old guy. We love the idea of an older "good guy" winning in a battle with a bad guy who is stealing property. But, we need to think and not follow the herd. And we also need to remember that although getting burgled is a lousy thing, we don't categorize burglary as a Capital Offense.

Who's "we"?

Mark my words as said above.....this old boy will be charged and sued. State of our legal system. Unless the kid was armed and in the house you best just let him have the motor and file a useless as tits on a boar hog police report that will never be followed up on. If you hurt the little POS you will be the one that gets screwed.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say if the old man would hypothetically be unable to detain the 20-something man, he'd also be unlikely to choke him to death...

I also like the idea of a thief being caught...though, as FP pointed out, what if it was your sister's misguided 20 year old son who got himself killed for attempting to steal an outboard motor to support his drug habit? You'd be screaming for the old guy's head, and don't for one second lie to me and tell me you wouldn't.

If it went down like the old man said, and his life was in danger, then it should be an open and shut case of justifiable homicide. At this point, I find this scenario highly unlikely to be the truth.

If there was an attempted burglary that went awry, and the old man killed the kid without his life being in danger, then the old man is going down, and should...I don't care how old you are, you can't go around killing people over a few hundred or a few thousand bucks worth of outboard motor. This isn't the Wild West, or some fuckedup third world country. Probably not Murder One, but something that won't have him out any time soon.

That's probably the most likely scenario, from what I've heard so far.

The last scenario is cold blooded murder with a setup to make it look like a burglary. If this is what happened, then the old man should be explaining himself to his Maker as soon as practicable.

Unfortunately I find this scenario to be more likely than the original story the old man told.

Fish on...

Todd

Moral of the story? Always have a "drop" gun or knife.

Actual moral of the story...don't kill someone unless you or someone else's life or well-being is in grave danger.

Otherwise...go to jail like you fuckin deserve. Can't do the time, don't do the crime.

Fish on...

Todd

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20110721/NEWS01/707219829

Published: Thursday, July 21, 2011

Officials ID man who died in alleged struggle with homeowner

Herald staff

EVERETT -- Officials Thursday released the name of a man who died earlier this week during a confrontation south of Everett.

Dylan Thomas Jones, 23, of Everett, died Tuesday in the 400 block of 117th Street SE, according to the Snohomish County Medical Examiner's Office.

The medical examiner lists the cause of death as asphyxia due to compression of the neck, and the manner of death as homicide.

Snohomish County sheriff's detectives are investigating, sheriff's spokeswoman Rebecca Hover said. No arrests have been made.

Jones was reportedly wrestled to the ground by a 67-year-old Everett homeowner before his death. The homeowner alleged that the young man was trying to steal a outboard motor.

Seems pretty simple---

Dont steal peoples shiaat and dont get dead

I would feel remorse as the old man does for killing the kid--but I would have none if I mamed them and brought them great pain and scared them for life--that would make them think before they go do something stupid

I have had a Motor stolen off my boat from my property and my truck broke into twice on my property. There was no sign posted that said "Hey Come Steal My Shiatt" . They made a concious decision to walk onto my property without asking if they could steal my shiaat. I probably would have said no but thanks for asking--now I wont have to think about loading my gun or beat you with a hockey stick. No they accepted the risk and helped themselves as if it was theirs. Cut the bolts off the motor and cut a very large "secure" paddle lock-left their cigarette butts and left no Thank you card.

Even a misdirected young un has the understanding --steal and risk..

http://www.katu.com/news/112953509.html



Could have went the other way to, I guess this chief
knew the kid so he was recluctant to shoot.

No charges will be filed, book it.

I think the thieves know the risk...just as long as the property owner with the itchy trigger finger knows it, too....that risk being if you kill someone without legal cover, you will go to jail.

If your outboard motor is worth that risk to you, then I say go for it. If it's not, then don't.

The only thing you're not allowed to do is kill someone without legal cover, and then whine about going to jail for it.

Fish on...

Todd

Actually, there's something else that you're not allowed to do...be a card carrying member of the "law and order" crowd, and then explain how that doesn't apply to you.

If you can justify breaking the law, then you also can't whine about others who can and do.

Fish on...

Todd

Todd hasn't convicted anyone, of anything.

Todd said that if the killing wasn't justifiable, then old man burns.

If it was, then old man walks.

Seems those who have made up their mind about the young punk thief getting what he deserved are the ones who, with no facts, have made up their mind.

Fish on...

Todd

Toxicology reports will play a factor. At most, the Old man will serve 1-2 years max.

There are a number of things that I would like to know prior to making any judgements on either's innocence or guilt:

1. Does either have a criminal record that may give us a better insight into the intent of either?
2. Is there any evidence(witnesses, correspondence, etc.) of the relationship that existed between the 67 year old and the 20 something guy that would indicate that the 67 year old may have had homicidal intent?
3. Are there any witnesses to this incident who can provide clarity?

I don't know what happened. We appear to have only one alive witness to the incident. What I am saying is that under the circumstances that we currently have in front of us, it is difficult and irresponsible to hold the 67 year old up as a hero. I'm not saying he is a villian, only that none of us know what is the truth.

And even though Aunty can't find the citation, it really doesn't matter. Two things are paramount:

1. Before someone can be judged as using justifiable homicide, homicide must be indicated as the means of death.

2. Just because the death is ruled as homicide, nothing is really changed. I had questions about this before the Coroner's ruling came out. Everybody seemed to be so interested in exalting the 67 year old that my suspicions were instantly aroused. Maybe that makes me a contrarian, non-violent peacenik!

It looked like an older Merc, I could see if it was a newer Yami T8 or something.

Rest in Piss! I hate thieves!

I'd like to get my hands on the POS that stole 40+ rods/reels, log splitter, chainsaws, weedeater etc from my dad's place 6 months ago...

It amazes me people have the never to take that much time to clean out a place and not fear for their life....

Keith

Aunty, how in the world does the call to 911 indicate anything more than that a call was made to 911? There are plenty of instances where people make inappropriate or dishonest calls to 911.

Here is the information about the relationship. "The boat owner recognized the attacker as his nephew's friend. He managed to wrap his arms around the would-be thief's neck, and held on." This is from the following page - http://www.komonews.com/news/local/125927234.html?skipthumb=Y Please note the date in the report.

I am amazed that some people still proclaim the 20 something as a thief when the only evidence that we have that he is a thief is the word of the man who killed him. Far as I am concerned it would be like someone calling the 67 year old a murderer. I am not proclaiming anyone as innocent or guilty, only that we do not know the facts.

I'm betting the old man got the kid in a choke hold from the rear. The old guy went to the hospital, so I'm thinking there was a struggle. The old guy may have managed to get behind the kid and choked the turd to death. And he may very well have not meant to do so.

It's really too bad that the kid didn't get away with stealing the motor. Then he could have stolen someone elses.....and then someone elses.....and then......who knows?

No, what's sad is the 9 year old girl who was severely wounded on I-90 after the logging truck crushed her skull in the 10 car pile up.

Well now that we know the identity of the alleged thief we may be able to get some more answers. His name is Dylan T. Jones of Everett, 23 years old. If you have the software to do background checks, you may be interested in the results (or more appropriately the lack of results). Now if we could just get the name of the alleged victim.

Not sure where you were looking Eddie. Dylan Thomas Jones has 8 interactions with the court system in Snohomish & King County and Lynnwood, all as a defendant, between 2007 and 2010. Not a boyscout, and those were only the times he's been caught. Certainly not prolific, but he played a stupid game and won a stupid prize. I don't think he deserved to die, but I won't shed a tear for him either.

My wife is a juvenile probation officer, so I'm sure she could dig up information on this guy in more detail, but on the surface, it looks like the dead guy was a turd.

Andy, you are correct. I do not have the internet tools. It looks like the likelihood of this going down just like the 67 year old said has just gone up dramatically. My original point is still valid I feel, it is really important to not jump to conclusions without supporting facts. I would expect that some enterprising newsperson will outline exactly what all of these cases are about and this will fade away.

Here is a site for you Eddie.

http://dw.courts.wa.gov/index.cfm?fa=home.namesearch&terms=accept

It is helpful when looking over rental applications, or when you are getting to know folks who you may be hiring for an odd job, etc. Certainly not definitive, but when someone you are sitting accross the table from has 87 interactions as a defendant with the State court system at the age 25 or 30, and you have one or none, is speaks to a person's character.

If the ole guy had gone to the kids property and this happened I guess there would be some questions, but since it was the other way around I would put my money on no charges filed.

I'm with Stam, I know plenty of 67 year olds that would volunteer for that public service!


Fishy

i agree with this totally. betcha the thief/punk was wearing skinny jeans, 3 sizes to small. or 3 sizes to big, wearing belt. sporting a greasy greenday t-shirt.

See top of page #2 Hank.

Only those who haven't had their outboard motor stolen think that outboard motor theft isn't a capital offense. The only way that 23 year old kid didn't get his just reward is if he wasn't trying to steal anything and his presence at the old man's place was mistaken as to purpose. When Todd's motor gets stolen, he jump to this side of the street.

Of course it's unfortunate when anyone dies, often sad and sometimes tragic. But in a world where actions have consequences, there's nothing sad nor tragic about this kid's death. What's sad and tragic is that the old man has to live out his days knowing he snuffed out a stupid kid who attempted to steal his motor. As an almost old guy, I feel sorry for the old man. It's unfortunate that the kid didn't have enough respect for himself to not take that which didn't belong to him, nor respecting the old man and his property. Absent respect, fear is a less ideal but useful mechanism to deter theft. Fear of getting killed for potentially small payoffs is the type of analysis that can be understood by those who don't understand respect.

I'm done feeling sorry for societal losers who take advantage of our justice system's methods of rewarding theft, which it definitely does. And because it does, there are only a few things we can do about it. According to Thurston Country Sheriff's deputies, we can lock our doors, install security systems (the noise may scare off intruders, but don't expect the deputies to respond - they don't respond to security alarms), keep a dog (like the security alarm, barking dogs deter many intruders, and keep ourselves lawfully armed. One thing we should absolutely not expect is for a Sheriff's deputy to respond to a home intrusion (besides we have a 30-60 minute response time) in time to prevent or deter anything. The deputies just show up after the fact to take a report.

The only reason to call 911 and the police is after a successful burglary for insurance purposes. If the burglary attempt was unsuccessful due to your having shot, or choked as the case may be, the perp, there is no point in calling the Sheriff, he can't help with anything useful and may make the unpleasant experience even less pleasant.

The proper procedure is to call Dogfish; he has a backhoe with which a very deep hole can be dug, into which the perp's misguided corpse is tossed and buried. If the perp was a tweaker, even his own mother won't report him missing. Only his parole officer cares about him in this whole wide world. And he'll forget about him soon enough.

Sg, a peacenik liberal who stands for truth, justice, and what the American way oughta' be, but isn't.

Yup. It's the petty criminals who prey on we the people that make me sick. I have more respect for a bank robber.

I bet you don't even need lime for a tweaker looking at how fast their teeth rot out.

Even a guy as levelheaded as Salmo G. can be wrong on occasion, and this is one of those times. I have had an outboard stolen and I certainly did not wish death on the creep. I do hope he got a hernia from carrying the old school 20 HP Merc though!

I don't find it to be a coincidence that most of those who are salivating for and dreaming of the day when they can bust a cap in somebody for stealing a tomato out of their garden are the same ones who happily vote for those "law and order" types who will gut the taxes that pay for...drum roll...law enforcement.

Fish on...

Todd

I've always wanted a backhoe. Can ya use em for razor clams and gooey ducks too ?

Actually you just pushed the problem onto some other victim. Killing him would stop him for good.....unless they multiply when shot.

AM,
I hope but doubt it will work out like you think. The old man sees the kid, sneaks or charges up and grabs him around the neck. This hold lasts until the kid dies. There was no threat to the old boys life until he starts choking out the kid. Who then struggles until death.

We are not talking Forks or Republic here, we are talking Pugetropolis. The guy will not get that to fly IMO. We are looking at Man in the least.......Murder in the worst. Likely charged with premed and plead to Man2. If taken to trial......anyones guess what happens. Ten people dumb enough to not get out of jury duty can come back with anything from nothing to life.

Never heard about that report. If true I retract. Last I heard the details still had showed just a dead kid and no injurys to the old man. If he is injured then he will likely walk. Thanks for the update.

"Do you think it's too late to go back and shoot him?"
No. Go for it. Odds are he left behind numerous victims since visiting you and odds are he hasn't atoned for a single one. But he did beat the odds in that he isn't incarcerated or dead. I'm not sure I agree that a maggot should have been allowed to breed.

Is that because the classmate turned out to be a turd? Or, because the guy went on to victimize countless others?

I just read the interview from the Herald, and I believe the old guy when he said he was holding on because he was scared. But, the old guy claimed that was before the kid 'gave-up' the first time. The guy then went to get some wire to restrain the boy until the cops showed...and then another struggle started....and ultimately the kid gave up a second time by giving up his ghost.

The old guy did admit that the kid intially had no intention of sticking around to face the cops, and he tried to stop him which resulted in the two of them trading blows, which the old man was losing. Because he was losing that battle he held on, for what he believed was his dear life.

The kid was initially going to walk/run away, I am not so sure this old guy should not be punished for at the very least manslaughter. By keeping the kid there, he escalated the situation. He knew the kid's name, his nephew probably knew where to get ahold of him. He ideally had another option open to him.

Which brings in a whole new issue...would the police have responded to an attempted burglary and pursued the suspect? Given the experiences of some of you, that seems like a stretch for today's LE policy.

What a mess...

Eddie,

It's not that anyone, even a low life who commits burglary, deserves to die. My issue is that we've devised a flawed criminal justice system that does nothing to stop it, and therein creates additional incentive to keep on burglarizing as long as crime pays. So it's not just my $500 deductable (home and car); it's every victim of the perp until he stops. And according to LE, most don't stop until caught and jailed for some higher crime. Because this type of crime actually pays, perps don't stop. LE says as much as 90% of the burglaries are committed by the same small group of repeat offenders. The remainder are isolated instances of opportunity, usually by juvenile or teen offenders.

The best reason for shooting burglars is that it is the one reaction that by definition stops the offender's recidivism. He's done repeating that offense. Does the punishment fit the crime? Not if it's his first or second theft, but is he entitled to steal dozens or hundreds of times without penalty? That's basically how the justice system works.

FP,

I don't know with the Sheriff's deputy didn't come out to your house; he came to my place. Maybe they don't care for your internet persona (?) jk. Your idea of indenture and payback for crime is the only alternative that actually makes sense for society, short of killing the perp. Giving him 3 hots and a cot in jail puts the perp on the public dole, and we know that you disfavor anyone going on the dole.

Regarding the death penalty as a deterent, you're mostly right. It doesn't deter murder because most murders are crimes of passion, therefore emotion and not logic is in charge of the operating plan. The same is likely true for drug addled tweakers, where chemicals are in charge of operations. I'm not advocating for the death penalty because I understand that it's not a deterent. I simply think that if otherwise potential victims choose to shoot and kill intruders/burglars, they are preventing all the future crimes that perp will commit. Because we all know that criminal justice won't be stopping him.

The flaw is the justice system that doesn't dispense justice and by poor design encourages further law breaking by making crime pay. The system is flawed when the deputies arrest homeowners who kill burglars and intruders, and try and then jail them. A reasonable justice system would be for the deputies to show up after the fact and call the coroner to fetch the body, ask if the homeowner is OK and do they need any help with clean up, and then thank him for making the country a safer place by removing a proven menace.

So this isn't about a death penalty via the disfunctional justice system. It's about not prosecuting citizens who in the course of protecting themselves and their property kill criminals, thereby preventing all the future crimes that statistics say repeat offenders will commit.

Todd,

There is no funding alternative that will ever put a cop on every block. It's just not feasible. So it's not about taxes and funding LE. This issue keeps coming up, and the flaw IMO is that since LE and Justice cannot prevent crime, and our system all but encourages it, we could at least shave a bit of that encouragement off by not prosecuting citizens who kill criminals, even if it was a garden-ripe tomato, which is a pretty high value target here in western WA. Then those perps who aren't wigged out on drugs could weight their alternatives if they have half a brain, which is probably only a few, but at least those would be spared getting shot.

Art,

Never underestimate the usefulness of backhoes. But they might get stuck in the mud going after gooey ducks.

Sg

As long as the fine is significantly less than the $500 insurance deductable.

Sg

Don't push it; it's not like we're talking about a life that will be missed by anyone or anything, including its owner.

I tried to stop someone who stole from me. He then attempted to actually kill me. When the cops came they he admitted that he was trying to kim me, but that was because he was "in fear of his life". I had to admit to them that I was prepared to do what I needed to get back what was mine. At that point they told me to I could sue him, but if that if anything was going to happen they were going to arrest me for attempted assualt. The whole system is pretty screwed up.

Forget getting pierce county sherrif to come. Out of probably 15 calls, they came twice for on going situations. From drive bys, guns being pulled, thefts, assualts and other things,they generally don't bother coming. From what I can gather, unless they get multiple calls, forget it. I can't count the thousands of dollars we have lots over the years and never got any response. I actually had an employ sign their name to several thousand dollars of my checks and cash them. The sheriff responded by stating they didn't have time to prosecute fraud.
Last time I called to send in a report they made me wait over 8 hours to have a deputy hand me a form and leave. Of course, they refused to allow me to simply pick up a form. Its all a joke.

Of course, I have had a great response with them regarding the horrible offense of not wearing a seat belt. Twice in the last year within 100 feet of pulling out of my driveway.

Police are becoming a lot like hatcheries. They only seem to exist for the purpose of self preservation. Look at king county, a couple years ago they threw out thousands of warrants for car thefts and other offenses because it cost too much and was too hard to enforce them. Then, of course, they put out a full force offensive to track down people who haven't paid their parking tickets.

Krijack,

Thanks for sharing your experience. Was that Pierce Co. deputies who were going to arrest you for thumping the perp? Like I said, backhoes are good. S/S/S (shoot, shovel, shut up)

Sg

Or consider when you have something of value that is on your property that you have worked hard to purchase and enjoy and an un invited guest comes to steal that from you? ok let's call 911- wait wait Hey guys ya need some help stealn my [censored]? If you have ever worked to buy anything of value it does not come with a come steal it sign.. Those oppose perhaps do not own or work to sAy- if ya gonna come on property with intentions to steal- pay the consequence- the ole man did to protect what he owned-

Could of been my ole man in that situation and if he was on the dead- I would haunt that fuk till he paid